Overloading the Rifle
NOTE: Published in the "Cowboy Chronicle" July 2011 edition - page 55
Overloading the rifle
... Overloading a rifle on a stage is not a safety issue. The safety comes into play if the shooter has any rounds left in the rifle after he/she has fired the rifle and committed to the next gun. Then, and only then, a safety shall be issued if a live round is left anywhere in the rifle.
Should the shooter realize that they have loaded too many rounds and safely ejects those rounds, it’s a no call.
Should the shooter fire more rounds than called for in the stage, it would be a “P” for using ammunition that was illegally acquired....
Wild Bunch mandate
What’s the Call?
Application of related existing rules/penalties
Stage calls for 9 rounds in the rifle. Shooter loads 10 rounds at the loading table.
Whats the call if:
1. Shooter shoots 9 rounds and ejects the 10th round…safely restages rifle “open & empty”.
NO CALL – NO MSV penalty for overloading – Rifle is considered “safe to leave shooter’s hands”.
2. Shooter kicks out the first round and then shoots the next 9 rounds.
“P” + miss (use of “illegally acquired” ammunition)
3. Shooter shoots 5 rounds, then kicks one out, and then shoots the next 4 rounds.
“P” + miss (use of “illegally acquired” ammunition)
4. Shooter shoots 9 rounds then puts down open rifle and then shoots the next gun.
MSV for an unfired round remaining in long gun action or magazine
SDQ if round is chambered (e.g. lever closes when restaged)
Here are the applicable rules used in determining the penalty for use of a "preloaded" replacement round in a rifle:
Ammunition required for reloads during the course of any stage must be carried on the shooter’s person in a bandoleer, cartridge/shotshell belt loop, pouch, holster, or pocket or be safely staged as required by stage instructions. ......Leather belt slide ammo loops are acceptable; …
The penalty for using "illegally acquired" ammunition (i.e. NOT carried to the line/staged by the shooter in an approved manner) will be a PROCEDURAL. Any targets hit using that ammo will be scored as MISSES.
NO adjustments will be made to the stage raw time.
SHB pp.21 & 25 – RO1 p. 21 – RO2 p.6
27. Ammunition dropped by a shooter in the course of reloading any firearm during a stage or ejected from any firearm may be retrieved and replaced, or, alternatively must be replaced from the shooter's person or other area as allowed by stage description. If the round is not fired it is counted the same as a missed shot. SHB Page 25: #27
1) If you load too many rounds in your rifle it's a no call but ONLY if you kick it out AFTER you have fired all the rest of the rounds in the rifle?
YES. If a round is 'kicked out'/ejected DURING the rifle shooting string (as opposed to at the END), the 'extra round' is there to replace it.
Rather than rely on a "judgement call" as to the shooter's INTENT (i.e. was the rifle overloaded on purpose or not?), the rules regarding "illegally acquired" ammo can be applied in ALL circumstances where the 'extra' round is used.
NO PENALTY for overloading.
The following existing rules STILL apply:
"P" + miss for use of ANY 'extra' round(s) preloaded in the magazine at the loading table to replace ANY that are ejected during the rifle shooting string.
MSV for leaving rounds in the rifle at the end of the shooting string (shooter has until FIRING the next gun to clear it)...or...if the rifle is the last firearm used on the stage; it must be cleared before leaving the shooter's hand(s) @ the ULT.
SDQ if an extra round ends up in the chamber (e.g. rifle returned to scabbard & the lever closes)
A “Spirit of the Game” penalty would NOT be appropriate as there is no advantage in getting the 15-second penalty (Procedural + Miss) for intentionally ‘overloading’ in anticipation of ejecting a round during the rifle shooting string.
2) If a shooter fires the extra round.... Shoots the 9 targets, and dumps the extra round into the back of the bay. What is the call? Is it a "P" for firing 10 rounds when the stage called for 9?
YES...according to the WB mandate. The round MAY NOT BE FIRED to clear the rifle.
NOTE: This is NOT the same as loading 2 in a shotgun and firing one (or both) at a target or firing the "extra" round downrange. The shotgun is generally NOT "preloaded" at the loading table.
Below is a message about Total Time Scoring, since the Windygap Regulators us total time scoring and always have, this will not affect us.
Thanks, Stumble Leena
Dear SASS Match Directors, Event Organizers, RO Committee, and Affiliated Club Contacts:
After careful consideration and evaluation of the countless requests and movements regarding scoring methods for Cowboy Action Shooting™, the SASS Board of Directors do hereby decree that effective immediately, all SASS Sanctioned Cowboy Action Shooting™ matches are to be scored using Total Time. Please consider this your notice to that effect and make immediate changes to your match planning to accommodate the change.
SASS Sanctioned Cowboy Action Shooting™ matches will no longer be allowed to use any scoring method other than Total Time. Updated contracts will be issued in the coming weeks to reflect the change.
We feel strongly that this monumental change will garner great support and appreciation from our valued members.
Territorial Governors Meeting Minutes (Winter Range – 2017)
Thursday, 23 February 2017, 5:45PM WR Main Tent
See SASS TG Attendance List for information on those in attendance.
Blackjack Zak (WR Match Director, Vice Chairman of ROC Presided)
1) Misty Moonshine (SASS CEO) is going to work on consolidating Shooter Handbook, RO
I/II Course Materials into ONE book. TGs gave full support and were rather happy!
2) Misty Moonshine revised the RO I course materials and instructor power-point
presentation, and is now shorter and more efficient with better flow. Misty used the
course to teach the RO I at WR for the first time, under supervision by Blackjack Zak and
Red River Wrangler, and has now been qualified as an RO Instructor. Congratulations
3) Reminder: Carpenter pants with a loop (like for a hammer) are legal; Cargo pants are not
4) Reminder: Sewing ammo loops onto shotgun loops is not legal.
Territorial Governors Meeting (Winter Range – 2017) Page 2 of 4
5) It was suggested that local clubs encourage new membership as much as possible. One
way could be for local clubs to allow .22 cal. firearms for shooters who are thinking
about shooting CAS who just want to try it out until they can commit to purchase
legal SASS firearms. This is not for State and above matches or annual SASS
sanctioned matches. SASS is perfectly OK with this, as a way to encourage new
shooters who want to “put their toes in the water” and see if CAS is for them. This is NOT
another official or sanctioned category.
6) Reminder: A shooter may holster revolvers after completing the shooting string of the
revolvers, before the next type of firearm.
E.g.: If stage scenario calls for shooting the revolvers and then the rifle, the first
revolver can be placed on a table, and then the second revolver can be fired.
BOTH revolvers however must be holstered BEFORE the rifle is fired (unless the
stage description allows otherwise). If the revolvers are the last type of firearm to
be used, then they must be holstered at the end of the string. (See definition of
“string” in the Glossary of Terms)
E.g.: If the stage calls for a split revolver (revolver, rifle, revolver) the first revolver must be
holstered BEFORE the rifle is fired. (The rifle is another/new string)
7) Misty is going to start sending monthly emails to TGs in order to facilitate another
communication channel to TGs. The ROC will add a monthly article with the email that
relates to some current or hot topic of CAS rules/issue discussion.
8) The ladies equivalent to the Grand Patron category has been officially renamed by SASS
to La Patrona, effective immediately (as of Winter Range 2017).
9) The Cimarron/Uberti "Rooster Shooter" RS419 Single Action Revolver with factory grips
is considered a historical firearm production grip, used by a TV Western figure. The
grooves on the grips of this firearm are not even remotely “grip enhancing” and are
therefore, considered SASS legal as approved by the ROC – they are a historical
embellishment. These particular production grips are only allowed for this particular
firearm. Grip enhancements are not allowed.
10) Question from the floor: When a Duelist pulls out the 2nd revolver and the 1st revolver
is still out with live rounds (2 loaded revolvers out at the same time – only legal when in
the Gunfighter or B-Western Category), can the shooter re-holster the 2nd revolver
before shooting any rounds and not get penalized for shooting out of category?
ROC Reply: In this situation, the shooter may holster one of the firearms to avoid
the penalty, up until the point when either of the two revolvers is cocked. In other
words, unless ONE of the revolvers is cocked, the shooter may simply holster one
of the revolvers to avoid the penalty.
Note: The “2 loaded revolvers out” ruling applies to ALL non-Gunfighter/B-Western
shooters, not to Duelists exclusively (e.g. a Gunfighter/B-Western competitor
shooting in a category other than Gunfighter or B-Western who draws both pistols
out of habit).
Territorial Governors Meeting (Winter Range – 2017) Page 3 of 4
11) Question from the floor: When is the penalty earned in the situation where a cocked
revolver is holstered?
ROC Reply: When hand is off the gun. (Answer was researched in current ROC
clarifications and discussions). When a cocked revolver is holstered, and the
shooter removes their hand from the grip, the appropriate penalty will apply (can’t
be rectified). Whether there is a live round, empty casing or empty chamber is
below the cocked hammer is irrelevant – it is the cocked revolver which earns the
penalty – SDQ.
12) Reminder: SASS default still applies even if not explicitly stated in the stage scenario.
E.g.: If the stage scenario calls for hands on hat, hands holding rope, hands
touching both sides of window frame, etc., then the rest of your body must be at
SASS default. You do not have to be looking straight down range. You can look
down at your firearm.
13) SASS will consider changing the Grand Dame category to something else, if they get
suggestions and the majority agrees.
14) Question from the floor: Will the ROC consider a penalty for shooters who do not dress
to their category requirements even after it was discovered they shot all or part of the
match without the proper clothing requirements?
ROC Reply: After much discussion, it was stated that match directors need to
ensure costume categories checks are performed each day of the match either by
posse leaders or range masters. Rules and penalties already exist for costuming
categories, and further rules are not in the best interest of SASS. It’s a question of
enforcing the rules we already have.
15) Enforceability of rules is a SASS/CAS wide problem. Match Directors, Range Masters
and Posse Marshals / Leaders need to enforce rules to maintain a fair and level playing
Territorial Governors Meeting (Winter Range – 2017) Page 4 of 4
16) Regional changes that were voted upon towards the end of last year will apply for 2018,
and will be officially announced in April. Only those TGs in the affected areas voted in
round 2 for their clubs. Option B-2 was selected, making it 7 SASS regions.
17) Extra: Right after the TG meeting completed, Shamrock Sadie asked Blackjack Zak for
clarification of "in hands," as there has been a discussion on the TG wire and
enforcement at some local matches as if it were a “clarified” rule. Blackjack Zak stated
that there is no rule or official clarification for "in hands," and that the match directors
can determine what they want "in hands" to mean for their match. Winter Range 2017,
defined "in hands" to be 2 hands (for the rifle and shotgun – hammer down on empty
chamber for rifle, and open/empty for shotgun) holding the firearm, however they
wanted to, without touching the ammo.